Leonard Umunna is the founder of the Bible Life Church worldwide. He is a commentator on current affairs. In this exclusive interview with ZEBULON AGOMUO, Editor, he spoke on a number of issues bordering on the state of the nation. Excerpts:

It’s about six months since the new administration took over power in Nigeria. From your own perspective as a cleric and leader of people in many sectors of the nation’s economy; how would you describe the administration so far?

The administration we have now cannot be correctly assessed, they are barely about six months, because of the eight years of bad governance of the past administration. So many things done then that needed to be undone now; many things hanging that need to be carried down now cannot allow this present administration to be properly assessed now even to one year. We know that everything rises and falls on leadership. If the leader is good the followers will be good. The follower looks up to the leader as they are led. With what has happened in the 2023 election; many of the things that we expected from the last administration that failed us will now be the agenda and focus of the present administration. Whatever this administration is doing now is telling you how far they prepared before this time.

The morning shows the day. They were all saying “We are prepared; “we are prepared.” It seems that the APC as a party, not necessarily Tinubu as a president now, was not adequately prepared for leadership. Before they will clear the backlog of the Buhari administration and have the ability to do better, it will take time. It may even take another year or more. But Nigerians are in a hurry and they are not happy with that long wait. What I would rather say is that APC wanted to win the election at all costs. They ran the election to capture power. it is like Atiku and Obi; they did not prepare to lose or to be in the opposition this time around. You see what they are facing now. So, Nigerians are never prepared for what they are expecting. To get it right, Nigeria and Nigerians need to restratagise. I am talking about constitutional change, among other steps that must be taken. They must prepare themselves to walk in the direction they want because leaders and leaders have found themselves where they did not expect.

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There has been an outcry that public officeholders may have continued in their way of lavish spending despite the large number of people languishing in penury. How, in your opinion, may Nigerian politicians’ appetite for ostentatious lifestyles be checked?

The Bible says that when the righteous are in authority the people rejoice. How can a leopard change its spots? It is not easy. The kind of leaders Nigeria has been getting, maybe, from 1999 to this point, have been foisted on the people. they are not the people’s choice. Some cabal just chooses them and foist them on the people. So, people who came to power that way are people who have lost their throat to gluttonous fats, they do not care about the welfare of the people. All they care about is “You chop; I chop; bring my own.” They are not after the good of the people or the country. They get the court to stamp their position in return for contracts and numerous appointment slots. So, they are not chosen by the people but by members of a cabal in society. That is a very big trouble for Nigeria. If Nigeria must move forward, the citizens must do something to break the vicious cycle. Let me paint a picture to make my point clearer. Mr A is a governor of a state and he is very good. But when he is leaving office he puts his personal assistant (PA) who he can control. But there are other capable hands that he could have picked but for selfish reasons, he settled for his PA. His PA did his own beat and when he is leaving, he goes for his secretary who knows little or nothing about governance. Meanwhile, there are many people that can move that state forward, but they are not picked. That captures what has been going on in Nigeria and in all the states, and the country is dying. Corruption breeds corruption. When the wicked are in authority, this is the kind of thing that happens. So, if you go to the National Assembly, the majority of the people there are the people that are very corrupt; they do not want to admit it, but their policy bent shows that people who are supposed to know better are even the ones causing the problem. Those that are at the top echelon of governance are not supposed to be there. Now, if the secretary I mentioned earlier gets there, he is now going to look for his clerk and get him ready to take over power. That is how quality continues to depreciate and the people continue to suffer. So, we keep getting worse. Inferior leaders and mismanagement of resources continue to be the order of the day.

The Supreme Court has affirmed the ruling of the tribunal on Tinubu’s victory. With the judgment and all the things that transpired during the presidential election, do you think Nigeria is making any progress in her electoral process and what danger does this portend for Nigeria?

Nigeria is not making good progress. The thing that has happened should make Atiku and Obi restrategise for 2027. Now, they have seen the kind of party they are contending with; that would make them restrategize. I even think that the Supreme Court has saved Nigeria from War and political suicide because if they did not go the way they went, there would be no peace in the country. If the Supreme Court had not gone that way, there would be no rest in the nation. If they had said it is Atiku or Obi, then the APC would go into opposition and you know what they did through NADECO to the military.

What I am trying to say now is that the PDP and LP should be vibrant opposition that people would see and say, “O, if these people produce the president things will be better.” They should constitute a shadow government by sharing the missing links and always pointing out what a true government should be doing, and the people see that they are more tuned to the needs of the people. So, when the next opportunity to vote comes, the people would en masse go for them. This is what the Supreme Court verdict should teach us. It is not a problem really, but a blessing in disguise. Nobody would have thought that at this stage of the country, the number of ballot box snatching, voter intimidation and all the voter apathy we had at the last minute; all the things we experienced strengthen the agitation by many people for a change of the constitution, not just amendment. The kind of leaders that have been leading us are not thinking for the good of Nigerians at all. They all want to feather their nests and if possible, buy Nigeria as a brand and put it in their pocket. So, the Supreme Court judgement helped us to avert war and have more peace. It is a good thing that happened but I am not saying it is the best thing that could have happened to Nigeria. Some people outside Nigeria are watching and pitying us, while others are saying, it serves us right because it is now being said it is a Nigerian thing- corruption. But we should not allow our image to be dented and keep quiet. We should still push, that in the next election, we block the loopholes. We must tell ourselves- never again!

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Some people are saying that the aura around the country does not spell real peace, but a peace of the graveyard. Can you describe Nigeria today as healthy?

As for the health of Nigeria, once someone is admitted to a hospital and the doctor is administering medication to the person, could there be any need to still say that this person is so healthy that we should be organizing a party for him to come and celebrate, while the person is still in the hospital?

We just came out from a big global hospital case from the Supreme Court side in which the whole world had to say “This is a Nigerian thing”. Our Supreme Court had to come out and issue a medical certificate of our ill health. So, nobody should come and trifle with the troubled state of Nigerian health.

Tell me the side that is healthy – security, exchange rate, transportation, roads (infrastructure), the welfare of the people? Tell me the side that we can say this is healthy?

If a person is coming out of the hospital and says he has been discharged; he is limping and there is every sign of unwellness all over him, what are you going to tell the people on the road who are seeing him limping? Can you convince them that he is in perfect health? With putrifying sores? The case of Nigeria is pathetic with small countries that were behind us now far ahead of us politically, medically, scientifically, socially, technologically, etc., not to talk of governance.

Nigerian leadership cannot be classed as one of the good ones not to talk of being the best in the comity of nations. No; no; no; Nigeria is not it. Again, Nigeria is not healthy at all. The aura we are having is not a good one. Nigerian leaders are insensitive to the plight of the people. It is one thing to know about something (you are aware) it is another thing to be sensitive about it. If you are sensitive you react or respond to that thing. If you are in a place and it is too cold; that means you are sensitive to it and aware of it; you know you will react; by trying to leave the place. But when our leaders are worsening our case instead of fighting the identified problem; they are insensitive. Nigerians are not looking for palliatives; they know what to do to survive; they want to thrive; but their leaders are thriving on the wrong side.

During the election; they identify all the problems and promise to fix them, but when they win the election, they first push the people out and begin to roll out unworkable solutions and force it on the people. That is the state of Nigeria now. Is it juju or what? Why can’t they get it right on leadership and national issues?

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To what extent has the goings-on in society – economic, political and social – affected the spirituality of the church which is your domain?

The Church always bears the brunt at any time. But the Bible always gives us a word that makes us win. “The just shall live by his faith” when it comes to this. It is said that when the going gets tough; the tough gets going. This state of affairs in Nigeria has made the strong ones become stronger and the weak ones to become weaker. Those who rely on the arm of the flesh are withering and getting weaker and weaker. Those who do know their God are getting stronger and stronger and doing more exploits.

What I have noticed physically is that some Nigerians who are in Churches that like to preach prosperity or wealth attract some members of other churches where holiness is being preached to move over to their place. It has also made those people in those churches that are wealth-inclined but spiritually they are dying; some of their members are also moving away to go look for where good messages on Christian living are being preached.

What I have found out is that the situation is either bringing out the worst or best in everybody. So, it is making those who go to church to seek after wealth to go deeper into it; and those who go to serve the Lord to be more serious. For me, I don’t think it is really a bad situation if we know what God allows. Nothing works against God or against his people. There’s a scripture that helps very strong Christians. It says “If only in the world you have hope you are of all men the most miserable.” If their hope is on the administration of this world as they hope or are expecting, this one will be better than the other one but in Nigeria’s case, this one is even worse than the last one. So, their hope has failed them.

They either cast it on God totally or fall apart. This is what I found happening in Nigeria. Some Churches are getting stronger while some are getting weaker. As you talk of the denomination, so are members because Jesus said, “I will build my church and the gates of hell shall never prevail against it”. To me, that is what is happening now. It is really showing us who is really for God.

If you had the opportunity to meet with President Tinubu today, what would be the message you would give him?

Very short and simple. Excuse me, Mr. President Sir, get it right in one day. The people want you to get it right in one day. Once you do that, you will have won their heart. Every other thing is ancillary. Just get the power (electricity) right, you would have solved a lot of the problems. It means people can do a lot of jobs on their own and live well. The people want to thrive not just to survive. They know what to do to survive, it is beyond survival, but they want to thrive in what they do.